Reader comments on 'The awful truth about the helping industries'
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The basic problem with designing social programs stems from the politics behind them. Elected politicians will push for policies that cater to their constituencies. Sadly, the professionals who must administer these programs find themselves in a difficult situation in trying to make the programs work. -

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Ah yes...how to measure the "public good"? A question best left to the Cato Institutes of the world. But, who will measure the public good in the many more $Billions that flow to private sector enterprise? Not to even mention that the private enterprise could not survive without the public good of roads, water services, public transit, police services, fire services, paramedics, and the myriad of other "public" infrastructure provided to them in return for their ever-diminishing share of public revenue support (as None other than Paul Ryan noted this week). So...if we refuse to quantify and apply the proportionate value of the "public benefit" accrued to private enterprise (even tho it would be simple math of dollars in and out) why is it so crucial to try to do so with "people programs"? -
Sink or swim. It's past time we let the freeloaders and good-for-nothings off with the cushy benefits we have handed them. If they don't appreciate the gifts they have received, well too bad. General society should not be beheld to the minority of people that are to lazy or uncaring to take care of themselves. -

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Evidence based decision making with our current crop of legislators? Wouldn't that be a wonderful change of methods. But wait, scientists are muzzled, or laid off. Evidence as it exists is ignored in favour of ideological pursuits. Tough on crime me arse. Tough on Truth is more like it. What social program has a hope of uplifting the human spirit when we are surrounded by the mind numbed doublespeak that passes for governance these days? As for governments having inherent weaknesses in self evaluation, that's deeply biased and a whole crock of nonsense. The implication that private enterprise is better suited to quick response and self evaluation is further nonsense. Heads out of sand oh denizens of the free market myth. That's simply a load of obfuscation to disguise and conceal the rigging and manipulating that is so eagerly carried out daily by private enterprise to wrest control. Government is not a tragedy of the commons. Bing truth and accountability to the fore in all avenues of public discourse, all routes of endeavour. Foster an atmosphere of positive mind, and influence the "disenfranchised" by example, while at the same time maintaining compassionate evidence supported programs such as exist now or will be developed. -
On the criticism of the headline, calling the helping agencies and those that are compensated by government programs (i.e. the network of professionals and other employees) an industry is exactly the point of the article. Agree with it or not, it's not a bad headline. -

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Shameful. This reads like it was written by the Romney-Ryan campaign team: Don't waste tax-payers' money giving the poor a hand-up because they are merely lazy, immoral, congenitally inferior welfare bums. But taking millions from social programs to spend on programs that measure the efficacy of social programs is the real waste. -

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Maybe a little research on how the money for these programs is spent. I always remember being told that most of the money for welfare goes to administrative fees. You pay a counscellor $50k a year to tell the welfare case how to live on $15k a year. This is true of too many programs and I do wish Ms. Wente would stick to Canadian Data and not something provided through The Cato Institute whose only interest is cutting everything that doesn't provide comfort to the top 5%. -
I recall after the Danzig shooting some reporters going to the Neighbourhood expecting to see social housing issues , poverty etc and one of the first things they observed was that virtually every house had a satellite dish on their roof, and I would bet a larg
. Really? Accountability is something the left don't want...any suggestion that these people share a large art of the responsibility for their situation is met with shrieks of heartless, Conservative, racist blah blah blah blah.... -

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What can possibly be wrong with pursuing programs that can be evaluated as good or bad? If true, "Over the past seven years, the city has poured an extra $210-million into programs designed to help Toronto’s “priority” neighbourhoods.
What difference has that money made? Nobody has a clue.", this is simply wrong and should be stopped. And to those who are using the argument that the money thrown at private enterprises is bad and thus we can justify the same carefree spending habits towards social programs allow me to say I think both efforts are a waste of my money. Show me how my tax dollars are being spent usefully (evidence please) and I'll decide whether I wish to support the expense. But to spend without being able to show a tangible result beggers the imagination. -
Living a lifetime in the subsidized ghetto is actually more costly that private ownership. If anything, we need to revamp CMHC so that just about every Canadian can experience home ownership and its socially useful behaviour constraints on those with 'something to lose.' It's time to revamp our laws to ensure that everyone can work towards owning something, and encouraging every person to contribute to society however they can. And if CMHC has to stay on title for a decade or two, so what? We need to dismantle to poverty establishment. -

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A big part of the challenge is that while it's relatively easy to measure the "value" of the new iPhone (sales profit) or JP Morgan's financial services (investment profit) or McDonald's (profit) or a private military contractor (profit) or your local dry cleaner (profit) or a cigarette manufacturer (profit), we don't have very good valuation tools to measure accurately the "value" of public goods and services like after-school programs, peer mentorships, school food programs, etc. As the old saying goes, not everything that's of value can be measured, and not everything that can be measured is of value. -

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I don't generally agree with Ms. Wente but I think this is a good article. If we're throwing money at problems it would be nice to know whether we're getting the results we hoped for. I also agree with some other readers that our current federal governnment has no interest in the facts or even in the existence of facts. Cutting the long-form census, enacting "tough on crime" legislation despite evidence that it doesn't reduce crime, and cutting funding to scientists of all stripes will never get us to where Ms. Wente thinks we should be. Unfortunately, truth and dogma don't mix. -

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In reply to @Scotch3: measuring the value of an intervention or program can be done. It is simply a question of devising the appropriate measures over appropriate time frames (one possible example: longitudinal studies of crime rates in areas such as Danzig before and after the implementation of after-school programs). -

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There may be no proof right now that there is anything self-serving about many of these programs but the fact is that thousands of administrators, social workers, outreach workers, etc. have a vested interest in keeping the money flowing. How much of that money is helping the people that need the help? -
Taking a step back for a moment, this debate swings like a pendulum, from solutions based on social programs to more Police/more prisons.
Unfortunately, a series of shootings or gross violence tends to get "knee jerk" reactions from our politicians, with very little in the form of solutions. -

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