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Earlier: Suicide and Canada's youth: What can parents do?
Many Canadian teens suffer from mental health issues - and all too often, parents have no idea. What are the warning signs? Where can parents turn for help? Send us questions and comments now, and join clinical psychologist Dr. Ian Manion and Eric Windeler, who lost his son Jack to suicide last year, live on Friday.
- I'm a father who lost my beloved son Braedon to suicide in May 2010 at the age of 21. Braedon had attempted suicide when he was 15 and his mother and family tried to help him recover. He had been accepted into the University of Waterloo (We live in Saskatoon) and I have moments when I feel guilt about letting go so far from home. But the simple truth was Braedon went to great lengths to hide his torment from us and from writings he left for us that he was planning his suicide for years. I've thought about it almost constantly and I've come to accept that there was nothing I could have done, but that doesn't diminish the pain of the loss.
- One thing I would like to know is how many of these suicides involve youth who were prescribed drugs for some diagnosed mental illness or ADD, ADHD, Asperger's Syndrome, etc. I have noticed so many drugs indicate thoughts of suicide and depression as possible side effects. My own son was taking one drug and after several years developed kidney problems, so when another drug was suggested, I felt the risk of suicide being a possibility was just too risky to outweigh the benefit, so my son continues to lack concentration and focus, but I'm just happy to have him survive and be with us as he is. We need more facts and statistics as parents to help our kids make the right choices whether or not to take specific prescription drugs.
- Hi Amberly, thank you for bringing attention to the epidemic of youth suicide. Our son Steven took his life at age 13 due to bullying at school. In May 2010, I started His Name Was Steven, a grassroots organization (http://www.causes.com/causes/490422 and His name was Steven on Facebook) trying to make a difference in the lives of students and their families. We currently have over 3600 members worldwide who have all chosen to speak out and stop the madness. We've found that the kids are the strongest advocates for change; they're our strength. I'll be here Friday to participate and help remove the stigma surrounding youth suicide.
- Good morning everyone.
- Good morning, everyone. Looking forward to the discussion today.
- @Ian Manion Did you want to tackle this question from Shannon: One thing I would like to know is how many of these suicides involve youth who were prescribed drugs for some diagnosed mental illness
- I have a question. Has anyone spoken with a self-identified, "former" at-risk youth (who has either contemplated or attempted suicide) to understand what the nature of the pain was, how they got to the place of thinking that suicide was the solution and what it would have taken to pierce their thoughts and offer them a different answer? Alternatively, what did it take for them to move past this place in their lives?
- @Sharon: Thanks for your question. Medication is one of many tools we use to help young people with mental health concerns. Under the right circumstances some of these tools can be extremely helpful. They should always be used after a careful assessment of the unique situation involved and in combination with some form of therapy.
- @Sharon: There is not a clear link between the use of medication for ADHD and suicidal risk. We do know, however, that impulsive behavious is a risk factor for suicide.
- Hello Dr Manion. I was hoping you could answer my question. Do you have suggestions for how to prevent or address mental health issues in young children (under 10?).
I have a long history of depression with a suicide attempt. Symptoms were showing by the time I was 7 but because people don't think of mental illnesses until you're at least a teenager (if that), I wasn't diagnosed or treated for another 10 years. I now have a daughter who is 7 and she has a very similar personality and disposition to me, which makes me worried that she will be prone to depression.
But at her young age, I have no idea how to talk to her about it or what to do that will help her cope with it better than I did.
Everything I read is geared towards teenagers or adults and I am at a loss. Are there any books or resources on depression with younger children?
Thank you. - @Just: There is a great deal of research that has been done with those who have had such thoughts and feelings. As well, there is something called psychological autopsies that have been done with all key people in a person's life who hase died by suicide. The key thing we have learned is that mental illness was present in more than 80 percent of cases. This pushes us to identify mental illness early and to equip young people with coping strategies well before they get to a crisis.
- eric - I don't mean to cause you any offense, but i'm wondering. i have read your story and know about jack - and I'm wondering if looking back, you could now recognize any warning signs? or was he actually hiding his depression 100%? not throwing any blame, but wondering what to look for in my own kids
- @JH I have the Knowledge Management people from Kids Help Phone nearby ... they may be able to recommend a good book to read ...
- @Amberly: Thanks. We can see depression in very young children, especially in families where one or more parent has also suffered from depression. There are books geared toward younger children that could be a springboard for conversation. Check out the Iris the Dragon series. www.iristhedragon.com. There are also programs in schools for younger children, for example, the Friends program in BC.
- Good morning, I lost my son Feb 11 of this year. When I was a teenager myself was went through a deep depression and tried to take my life as well. I was always open honest about my depression and recovery to my son. I am dealing with the fact that I could not see the depression in my own son. Instead he hid it very well from us, but told his friends how he was feeling and they did not know what to do with this information.
- @noname ... no offense taken. If I only knew now what I knew then ... yes in hindsight there were small signs. The bigger more obvious signs in Jack's case were showing at school. He had withdrawn from social activity ... stopped attending classes.
- My son died by suicide in April 2010, 21 days after his 20th birthday. Yes, I agree that in hindsight there are signs of distress. At the time I confused them with a mild teen dysfunction and the need for space. How can I get a psychological autopsy of my son?
- This is a general resource to start a discussion with a young child about depression ... www.kidshelpphone.ca (when you click here you will be taken to a specific part of the site)
- @Shannon: There was a lot of concern around the use of SSRIs and how they could contribute to suicidal thoughts and behaviours in young people. This, however, was only based on a small number of studies. The result was a decrease in the use of SSRIs in children and youth. But we also saw an increase in the incidence of suicide when less medications was being used in this population. The bottom line is that we need to identify and treat mental health effectively to reduce suicidal risk. At times, this can include the use of medication but should always include therapy.
- Eric, my 10 year old son watched the video that you made, my little guys started to cry because after James deah we learned that he wasn't attending classes or his exams and since he was 18 the school did not have to notify us of these issues. and my little guy said it sounds like my brother. What is the opionion of the privacy act that prevents parents from finding out this valuable information.
- @A20: We are so sorry to hear of your loss. This is tough for everyone whose life was touched by your son. Psychological autopsies have been undertaken by the research community, usually as a way to help us understand issues across many cases. It does not tend to be used or made available on a case-bay-case basis. Even with a psychological autopsy, there are not always clear anwers for those who have lost someone.
- In my son's case, hr was a very happy, creative 13 year old; if he was depressed he hid it from everyone. His life went down hill very fast, just one semester in junior high, where he was tormented buy several students. I'm told his was an impulsive act. I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure.
- @ Ian: I'm curious about the statement "But we also saw an increase in the incidence of suicide when less medications was being used in this population.
' - @still in grief sorry for your loss ... I can't be the expert in privacy guidelines ...but they are a problem ... most post-secondary schools have a "form" that the student must "check-off" before they can share information with parents ... over time I hope schools will reverse that policy so a student has to "check" to prevent this information being shared.
- @Still in grief - agreed - my brother attempted 2 years before we lost him but because he was "of age" the family was not notified. Is there no one fighting for a 'right to know' clause or something to that effect? Had the family been notified we could have intervened. Why is there a law blocking loved ones from hearing reports of attempts?
- @Mike: Your comments remind me how complex the issue of youth suicide is. We know that there can be many contributing factors such as bullying, other trauma, underlying mental health concerns and stress beyond one's ability to cope.
- @still in grief further ... schools need to step up and develop systems so they can share information between departments to flag worrisome behaviour. There are no privacy guidelines preventing department-to department sharing of information ... this can form a clearer picture and result in action/intervention.
- @Mike: The rates of suicide are monitored quite closely. We know when the scare about the use of SSRIs in depression came out many doctors were reluctant to prescribe that medication. Coincidentally, during this period when there was less use of medication, there was a slight jump in the rate of suicide monitored through the systems I mentioned before. There is still no clear causal link one way or the other that has been established.
- Hi - I come from a family of multiple suicides, my mother and brother have both taken their lives, and my son who is 19 has struggled with depression since he was about 9. He started university last year and struggled with feelings of desperation daily. I was just trying to make some sense of my brother's suicide a year earlier and was devastated by his situation and exceptionally fearful .
He tried therapy and was discouraged with that and later we went to our family doctor and he has been taking lithium since about April of this year.
He seems to feel much better on the whole, but I am wondering about these young people who have had suicide as part of their body of experience - how they make sense of these experiences.
We are fortunate that we do talk about suicide in our home and that he has had the experience of seeing our family devasted by suicide, but is frightened by his feelings about suicide . - Parents need to listen to their kids concerns. I was always told that I was too young to be depressed. Well after 12 attempts I am still alive 35 years on thanks to my friends. Later on, my mom, after losing dad finally told me that she finally realized what depression was. My parents loved me but failed to see the hurt in my eyes.
- @ella: Clearly your family has been through a lot. And this is probably sensitize you to the need to talk about these issues openly in your family. I applaud you for this as we should be doing this more often. The fact that the first kind of therapy didn't work for your son pushed you to find the right kind of help. Again, the real challene is to find the right combination of tools that will help an individual in stress.
- @ella It is so positive you are talking about this (suicide) in your family ... this is the number 1 heath risk young people face ... we know that the simple act of talking about tough subjects like this really helps young people (us all) make sense of experiences like these.
- @Lorin: I have seen very young children with depression and children as young as four years of age with suicidal risk after an intense loss. We need to understand that even very young children can have mental health concerns affecting their mood, behaviour and quality of life. More and more we are turning to schools as places to hep us teach children about mental health and to identify those with emerging problems as early as possible.
- @Lorin - Thank you for your perspective, and glad to hear you're a survivor. The Globe did a great piece on another survivor (HERE), who also got through it with the help of her friends and mother. Do you have any advice for people experiencing the pain right now?
- Good morning and thank you for being here - the wait list for help and support is truly outrageous, I waited over 7 months for help for my son who was dealing with severe anxiety - working in the field I knew how to help him but still wanted him to receive more support - how can we help parents deal with these very long frustrating wait times?
- @Lorin your parents were just like me 18 months ago. Lack of knowledge. Just not having a clue. It is so great your friends were there. A big part of The Jack Project is to get and keep the discussion going - about mental health generally and suicide as well. People (like I was) have no clue of the magnitude of the issue.
- @Eric Windeler :I agree, schools and teachers need to be given far more authority to intervene and share information. The laws are too confusing and rigid. If the adults on "the front line" can't act when needed, who else can?
- My concern is that peers don't know how to respond when a friend confesses contemplating suicide. As much as we discuss with our children, they will think they are mature enough to deal with certain issues and they will rather confide in friends. How can we educate them to respond?
- @Mike Urry The ability to "act" needs to have knowledge/understanding/compassion at it's root. Then some still won't be able to step in, but it is their responsibility to trust their gut instinct, and if you can't offer support yourself, then find someone who can help the person in distress.
- @Jill: Thanks for your question. Wait times are a huge problem in child and youth mental health, but it's not just about wait times. It's about "What are we waiting for?". Not everyone with a mental health problem needs to see the most specialized of service providers. There are programs for children that have been shown to be effective when run in schools. A good resource for children with anxiety is called Taming Worry Dragons. More and more we are looking at ways to provide advise to parents on those kinds of problems virtually. Family Help in Nova Scotia is a good example of this. Wait lists are also a sign of an under-resourced system. many of us are working on this problem quite aggressively on the provincial and national levels. We have to do better bny our kids.
- @Amberly: My advice for people going through it right now:
Find a reason and a friend to carry on.
I managed to get through life now with HUMOUR and dedication to service.
I think people need to open up to a friend and/or medical professional to seek the help they need. In my day it was not only "taboo" to speak of suicide but the stigma remained for a very long time.
Being Gay I managed through humour and fighting for the underdog, I managed to reach 62 years and am happy now. I have a partner for many years now but have lost so many dear friends earlier in my life. - Our young adult daughter was away at school and apparently had thoughts of suicide and thank goodness talked to one friend who encouraged her to get help.
She ended up in a hospital for 5 days. Since she is of age, no one had to inform us. She did tell us after she returned home but does not want to talk about it with us.
Her friends told me that she told them she has been strugling with depression for years! That is a shock to us!! She has hidden very well.
She was diagnosed with a mental disorder and on medication. We have offered our support but she does not want to talk about it.. What can we do?
I don't want it to happen again. - @A20Mother Some secrets are too big to keep. Young persons need to realize it is not their sole responsibility to help. It's a collective responsibility. The most respectful and responsible thing to do is to involve others to 'help you help.
- @A2: We kow that young people will talk to other young people if they talk to anybody at all. That is why we have to help all young people with their mental health literacy so they know what a problem looks like and where to go for help.
But we also have to help peers to understand that it's more important to save the friend than to save the friendship. I've known too many friends who have kept things confidential only to lose their friend to suicide. - As we talk about youth suicide in Canada it's impossible to ignore that our Inuit and Aboriginal youth suicide rates are some of the highest in the World.
Although these too can be attributed to mental health issues, I believe that housing, education and basic needs are at the core. What suggestions and or solutions do our panel members have for this challenge in youth suicide prevention?
